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Comments

david

your point is, i'm afraid, entirely fatuous!
stalin celebrated hitler's defeat: does that mean that hitler's defeat wasn't a good thing?
the saudis were pleased when sadaam hussein was removed from kuwait in the first gulf war - does that mean it was the wrong thing to do?
so the fact that hamas is celebrating the disengagement doesn't say anything about whether the policy is right or wrong - unless you want israel's policy to be controlled by what hamas does or does not desire?
i would prefer israel to do what's right for israel - and getting out of gaza is just that

Tzvi

David:
You are ignoring one small detail: Hamas, in its celebrations, states that the expulsion is the 1st step towards the total destruction of Israel, and that the armed resistance is the only way to victory. So, taking things in their proper context, Freund is correct. If Hamas is happy about something, we have reason to worry.

While Stalin may have wanted the US to dissappear, he never stated that Hitler's defeat was the first step towards the demise of the US. Had this been stated (and taken seriously), the US would have had good reason to think twice. It wasn't stated, since Hitlers demise was an obvious benefit to all humanity - even the communists.

Perhaps that it is this flawed logic that has been blinding the left all along...

Philip

Sure there is celebration. Is this not tantamount to the establishment of a new nation? Unfortunately, most of those who celebrate now will end up facing far greater oppression from those who "have" in the arab world. That is - if HASHEM stays his hand in all this for the moment.

jp

Whatever the outcome, whatever the meaning, the bottom line is where do we go from here. Oslo wasn't the beginning of this situation. (Although Oslo certainly wetted the lips of those self-hating Jews who saw a way to make a personal profit.) What this is all about is a general wish to force Israel back to indefensible borders. The UN resolution 242 and President Johnson's effort to link withdrawal to a true peace agreement was a blip that the world wants to erase. What is happening is no different then what transpired in 1956 and every time Israel has reacted to terrorist attacks. Each time we are told to pull back or to not respond to suicide bombings, etc. The last 30 years have been a grace period.

We see from President Bush's demand that negotiations begin with the 1948 armisters line what the world really wants. No, I am not saying that America wants to eradicate Israel, but they view Israel to be another Taiwan. America supports Taiwan, but when China moves against it even America will not help. However, at least for Taiwan the Chinese will not go on a killing spree. Who seriously believes that the Arabs will negotiate anything when no one has demanded that they live up to promises already given.

The real goal of the self-hating Jews is to turn Israel into a secular Palestinian State; and if the left wing elitists can make a profit even better. Of course the Arabs have no interest in that. Instead there will be a massacre. The world will slowly move to stop the fighting, but will arrive only to shed crocodile tears.

The answer is complex. We need a Party that will support Jewish ideals. The problem is that the majority of Jews in Israel are not religious. Therefore, they will not support a truly religious government. Lapid will scare the masses that a right wing Party, being pro-Jewish, will institute a theocracy. They will only vote for a secular right wing party. Unfortunately, that means the corrupt Likud or Shinu. Needless to say both would be more of the same. We need an alternative, a Party that has religious ideals, but a willingness to soften their religious demands. These people will have to use persuasion in place of laws to make the State more traditional.

jp

Whatever the outcome, whatever the meaning, the bottom line is where do we go from here. Oslo wasn't the beginning of this situation. (Although Oslo certainly wetted the lips of those self-hating Jews who saw a way to make a personal profit.) What this is all about is a general wish to force Israel back to indefensible borders. The UN resolution 242 and President Johnson's effort to link withdrawal to a true peace agreement was a blip that the world wants to erase. What is happening is no different then what transpired in 1956 and every time Israel has reacted to terrorist attacks. Each time we are told to pull back or to not respond to suicide bombings, etc. The last 30 years have been a grace period.

We see from President Bush's demand that negotiations begin with the 1948 armisters line what the world really wants. No, I am not saying that America wants to eradicate Israel, but they view Israel to be another Taiwan. America supports Taiwan, but when China moves against it even America will not help. However, at least for Taiwan the Chinese will not go on a killing spree. Who seriously believes that the Arabs will negotiate anything when no one has demanded that they live up to promises already given.

The real goal of the self-hating Jews is to turn Israel into a secular Palestinian State; and if the left wing elitists can make a profit even better. Of course the Arabs have no interest in that. Instead there will be a massacre. The world will slowly move to stop the fighting, but will arrive only to shed crocodile tears.

The answer is complex. We need a Party that will support Jewish ideals. The problem is that the majority of Jews in Israel are not religious. Therefore, they will not support a truly religious government. Lapid will scare the masses that a right wing Party, being pro-Jewish, will institute a theocracy. They will only vote for a secular right wing party. Unfortunately, that means the corrupt Likud or Shinu. Needless to say both would be more of the same. We need an alternative, a Party that has religious ideals, but a willingness to soften their religious demands. These people will have to use persuasion in place of laws to make the State more traditional.

Aaron Eitan Meyer

Zionism is the embodiment of fundamental Jewish principles. Im Eishkachech Yerushalayim was not a saying coined by modern secular Jews, but extends back generations. Judaism hallows the land of Israel, and always has. The yearning of Jews for millennia to return to Zion was not a secular fad, but a central tenet. To deny Zionism its key place in Judaism is to either misrepresent or misstate Judaism.

Rambam

Tactics verses Strategy

The disengagement is brilliant, not because Jews should not live there, but it will cause several ripples:

1. Look to the Basques, the Tibetians, the Kurds, the Berbers, the Coptics & others to start demanding end of occupation..

Who is not guilty of occupation?

Let's look... the Arabs? hardly, the AOF (arab occupation forces) are occupying, many peoples homelands, after all arabs come from Arabia? Do arabs have a right to Sweden? Amsterdam?

Nope the precedent is set....

next....

Gaza and most of the west bank given to the "palestinians"

Is this not coming down to a border dispute?

Will or can Israel draw "arab-israeli" towns OUT of the borders of Israel and GIVE those towns to the PA?

Interesting times ahead...

Hope Gaza enjoys large fresh water supplies!

It's going to need it...

yprittsehmi

Who is celebrating?The parties of the cruel are only for a moment.Alot of noise and finished.But to make the statement "the beginning of the end of Israel"I see that the gentleman has no upstairs,he hasn't read the manuel (Tanach)or he's quite a bungalow(if you are from England please explain what a bungalow is) maybe all three together.It seems that the battle lines are being drawn. The middle east Alamo is being prepared and the horseman with no name is about to step into the set.And someone has a screw loose and it is not MR Sharon.The Shofar is gently playing in the background.
The big mistake that Houmos is making is that they are rejoicing without the zaata, and olive oil out of the scene "yuch" And that's a big mistake.Quite tasteless.To come out of the kitchen. Confusionus did not write this.
It is written do not rejoice when your enemy falls.Because HaShem may hear his cry.It will make the temporary victory quite tasteless.Right?
HaShem is angry at the wicked everyday, he sees the fruit of their labours and it is all in vain.They can boast and brag and do a lot of damage but they can not break the spirit of the person that had his trust in HaShem.He knows that one day HaShem will repay ALL the wicked and the cruel and His price will need to be paid in full. The older I get I see just how temporary this world is.The days go by quicker and the week seems like a day.At the end of my time frame I will need to meet my maker.He is not an idol of wood or Black stone or any kind of manmade artifact,that I need to bow down to.(Nor to a man or woman).
The Kilheds & the Mushalls and every worker of deceit will have to eat their own words in this world or in the next.
Gan Eden will not be on their agenda.

Michoel Zeldis

This is no mistake. This is all part of Bush and U.S. State Department plan to eliminate Israel. Sharon is like a drug addict with Bush being his sole source of the heroin.

No mistake here. The goim no exactly what they are doing.

Rev. John D. Shook

Proverbs: 10:25 As the whirlwind passeth,so is the wicked no more.but the righteous is an evelasting foundation.
May HaShem have mercy on Bush, Sharon, Tony Blair, the State Dept., Peres, Beilin and Weisglass.

Dave Sabatene

I have no idea where Mayer gets his ideas from. Everyone who is a frum Jew knows perfectly well that Hashem sent us a decree of Exile until the arrival of Mashiach, at which time the entire earth will serve Him. To alter the decree of Exile is exactly what caused 20,000 of the Tribe of Efraim to be killed. The Three Oaths carry a warning: If you violate it, "ani matir es besarchem ke-tsviyos ve-ayalos ha-sadeh." "I will make your flesh vulnerable like the deer and gazelle of the field." And this is being fulfilled under Zionism, and the Zionist state is disintegrating. None too soon.

yprittsehmi

It's moving to read what is happening,but something good is coming out of it.The soldiers,Police and residents are beginning to cry together,Those that have an open heart are beginning to work together> Although it is painful.Maybe just maybe it is Time For Heshbon Nefesh for the nation,To lay down ones pride and weep before HaShem for the sins of the nation.Reading Tehillim is a start to open our hearts to pray to HaShem.Create in us a Clean Heart and renew the upright spirit in each of us.It is time for Yom Kippur Today without the fast.Maybe HaShem will hear our prayer.In true devotion.PRITT The hardest road is to change ones situation. To even consider that each of us do things against HaShem is inconceivable.But we do!that is the sad reality Like Children we need to learn how to speak to HaShem,and correct the wrongs.Do we steal from a gentile it is just a matter of time before we will steal from a brother,Do we lie and cheat a gentile it is just a matter of time before we do it to a brother.If we work to be 100% honest to the nations our concscience will not allow us to be dishonest to our brothers.HaShem does not justify any wrong act against anyone.Yom Kippur now not later!!

Barry

Yamit, cowardly retreat from Lebanon, and now Gush Katif. Why doesn't the Israeli Government cut to the chase and make it easy on themselves; have Nefesh B'Nefesh transport all their Jewish people citizens to Brighton Beach.

Go'Marnu.

Zvi Pareth

it is a pitty that this rather logical articels do not get through the people of Israel even not to those who are not blinfolded by the leftists.

Zvi Pareth

it is a pitty that this rather logical articels do not get through the people of Israel even not to those who are not blinfolded by the leftists.

Jan Smith

Lord help us all, this pull-out is so wrong. God will certaintly judge the nations that go against His choosen people of Isreal...plain and simple

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